Bible Study log
Cyto says '6:7  With good will render service, as to the Lord, and not to men, 6:8  knowing that whatever * good thing each one does, this he will receive back from the Lord, whether slave or free.'
Amfortas says 'Great.'
Cyto says 'we went over these before, i think the log is on the website'
Miriam nods.
Cyto says 'but the last phrase i want to go over'
Cyto says 'now there are two wasy i can see of looking at this'
Cyto says 'it can be directing you to this whether your a slave or free'
Cyto says 'or it can be said that god will reward you whether your a slave or free'
Cyto says 'what do you all think about that, how do you think the latter interpretation could affect the way someone would do things'
Cyto says 'or think about things'
Miriam says 'good works are not dependant on station in life.  and God will reapy any good work, even if the vessel isn't the finest'
Vayrim says 'Perhaps it shows that people can earn rewards from God, no matter how low their position.'
Miriam nods at Vayrim.
Vayrim says 'Likewise, perhaps it also shows that people can receive punishment from God, no matter how high or low their position.'
Cyto nods at Vayrim.
Cyto nods at Miriam.
Cyto says 'but how might a person act, knowing this verse , as opposed to not knowing thsi verse'
Amfortas says 'I think it means that good works are rewarded whether they are done by choice (free man) or because you are forced to do them (slave).'
Cyto says 'hrm thats not quite what I see'
Miriam says 'I think it encourages us to try to do good acts, even if we don't think we're "good enough"'
Miriam says 'and I think that God will recognize a small act as much as a "big" act'
Cyto says 'if you look earlier in the chapter that we should do good works with our whole heart, not as eyeservice, so, its not just about being forced to do sommething because whatever situation we always have a choice, maybe not about what we do but about how we do it or our attitude or something and i think we're judged on the choices we make, '
Cyto nods at Miriam.
Miriam says 'we can't all be philanthropists and donate millions of dollars to charity, but we can be like the widow woman and donate one penny if it's all we have'
Cyto nods at Miriam.
Cyto says 'i think thats very important its very easy to get discouraged if we're poor or weak and feel we can't do anything'
Vayrim says 'Perhaps it's a reminder that sins which are not seen by humans are still seen by God.'
Amfortas says 'I think we are making similar points. The slave doesn't have a choice of what to do, but he can choose his attitude. As the opening verse says, he should work at whatever task he is assigned as though it was assigned by the Lord. '
Cyto says 'or even if we have very little time but are reasonably middle class but feel we can't serve god in any meaningful way cuz we have 2 minutes or we're jsut not "church people" we're only "normal" God has a way for everyone to serve'
Cyto nods at Amfortas.
Miriam nods at Cyto.
Wargreymon nods.
Cyto says '6:10  Finally, be strong in the Lord and in the strength of His might'
Cyto says '6:10  Finally, be strong in the Lord and in the strength of His might'
Cyto says '6:10  Finally, be strong in the Lord and in the strength of His might'
Cyto says 'think on that a moment'
Cyto says 'okay what is this saying'
Cyto says 'the last verse is about masters giving up threatening that both their master and yours is in heaven'
Cyto says '6:10  Finally, be strong in the Lord and in the strength of His might'
Cyto says 'what does this mean'
Vayrim says 'Perhaps it's a reminder that we have no real strength on our own. True strength comes from God.'
Cyto beams a smile at Vayrim.
Vayrim says 'This verse comes just before Paul talks about putting on the armor of God.'
Cyto nods at Vayrim.
Vayrim says 'I don't think that's a coincidence.'
Cyto nods.
Cyto says 'i don't hink so either'
Miriam nods.
Cyto says 'take a look at the first word of the sentence'
Cyto says 'its Be, its not your strength comes from'
Cyto says 'its BE'
Cyto says 'that implies to me that this is a directive'
Miriam nods.
Vayrim says 'Please elaborate.'
Miriam says 'and also a state of being'
Cyto says 'it reminds me that God never tells us to do anything we can't do '
Cyto says 'and that a lot of people plead that they're not strong people that they're not an apostle or one of those really religious people or one of those people that can really deal with things, but God is giving us a directive here and aloso information on how we can fulfill it'
Cyto says 'how does that speak to you personally'
Miriam says 'it convicts me.  I fall into the trap of saying I don't have enough time to make a difference'
Cyto nods.
Miriam says 'that I'm not as good as someone else'
Cyto smiles happily.
Miriam says 'but I need to let God use me as He sees fit, and even with all my faults, He can still bring something good out of it'
Cyto nods.
Cyto says 'there are some sins that i've always had a lot of trouble overcoming'
Amfortas nods at Miriam.
Cyto says 'and i've always felt it was near impossible but this verse says to me that not only does God expect me to, but he also says that its not me where i'm supposed to get the power from'
Cyto says 'its not by "trying harder" that i'm supposed to overcome'
Cyto says 'its not by reaching down and pulling myself up by my boot straps'
Cyto says 'its not by listening to a former real estate agent and foot ball player give me a motivational speech'
Amfortas nods at Cyto.
Miriam nods.
Cyto says 'its by the power of God, and whatever he has said is the way to overcome, i would have overcome a long time ago if was going to by trying harder'
Miriam smiles softly.
Miriam says 'that's so me'
Miriam chuckles politely.
Cyto says 'as a kid i always felt like i never quite measured up to my parents expectations or my expectations for myself, and i got a lot of grief from them'
Cyto says 'and I realize i'm still trying to meet those expectations that I'm never going to meet and still stuck because i'm trying to meet them by trying harder and trying to be perfect'
Cyto says 'or quitting if i can't meet my ideal'
Vayrim says 'I got lots of grief from my parents when I was a kid. They loved me, but they didn't know how to react to my failures.'
Cyto nods.
Cyto says 'I've been reading a book that encourages people to grieve the loss of thea dream of being perfect and meeting those expectations of perfection, grieve it like a death, you'll never be the perfect kid whoever wanted you tto be at least till we see glory'
Cyto says 'and to Let God Ressurect us with his power and do with us what he wants'
Cyto says 'I think the idea is that as long as we're still trying to fulfillthose dreams by our own power and doing it in non productive ways we're gonna stay stuck but when we truly give up, thats when God can take control, its the giving up  of our pride'
Miriam nods.
Cyto says 'miriam can you think of a particular time when you felt frustrated at your inability to meet an important person's expectations'
Miriam says 'probably in school.  I had a lot of extra stuff going on last time I was in college and I really let it get in the way of taking care of school.  I had to take an incomplete for a course, and I never did get to finish the paper'
Mmelville says 'hey'
Cyto smiles happily.
Mmelville smiles happily.
Vayrim smiles happily.
Miriam says 'I didn't allow God to take care of the other stuff for me'
Cyto nods.
Miriam says 'and by keeping it all to myself, I let it interfere with things'
Cyto says 'who in particular's expectations do you feel you were failing'
Miriam says 'the professor's and mine.  she really encouraged me to go to graduate school, had to really sell me on the idea'
Miriam says 'she's someone I really admire an respect a lot'
Cyto nods.
Miriam says 'and I felt like I failed us both'
Mmelville nods.
Cyto nods at Miriam.
Cyto says 'it sounds like you cared about the professor's opinion a lot, its never easy to show our mortality in front of people we really care about'
Miriam nods.
Mmelville says 'sorry to join in but what happened?'
Mmelville says 'i missed it'
Amfortas nods.
Mmelville says 'something bout her college professor wanted her to go to grad shcool and she didnt'
Cyto says 'we're logging, we're talking about relying on God for our strength'
Mmelville says 'oh ok'
Cyto says 'the details you can get later'
Mmelville says 'it ok'
Cyto says 'did you ever talk to the prof again or get any resolution about it'
Miriam says 'no.  the hurricanes came right after that semester.  was preoccupied with getting back home and then tryin to get a job once businesses returned to the city'
Cyto nods.
Miriam says 'I need to call her though.  I found a couple of books the other day that belong to her'
Cyto nods.
Cyto says 'do you think these verses have any implication on how you could you could make your reconnection the most edifying experience'
Cyto says 'or how you could reframe your thoughts about the matter'
Miriam says 'Mainly just to prepare myself spiritually for it, and trust God to take care of it'
Cyto nods.
Miriam says 'I tend to have a hard time letting go of control'
Cyto nods.
Cyto says 'ditto'
Vayrim says 'Me too.'
Cyto says 'i've personally found something about failing'
Mmelville says 'yeah'
Vayrim says 'Yes?'
Cyto says 'when you fail and let other people know about it'
Cyto says 'they realize your real'
Cyto says 'how you deal with your failure is a testament, maybe more than your victories'
Miriam nods.
Cyto says 'see everybody knows you can put on an image of perfect and everbody has stuff there good at, but the areeas where people fail in are vulnerable'
Vayrim says 'Sounds good. In the past, when I've failed and let people know about it, they've usually yelled at me. Except for Bible-believing Christians. They've usually been understanding about it.'
Cyto says 'and if you're actually willing to admit it and be real, that can be meaningful'
Miriam nods.
Mmelville says 'yes'
Miriam says 'my professor is a Christian.  that was something great to have at a public university'
Vayrim says 'Praise the Lord!'
Cyto says 'my boss says he's a catholic, but ....he really doesn't do much about it, though he's a really nice person'
Cyto says 'he talks to me about God though'
Cyto says 'and he admits his failures and i admit mine, and he knows i'm not the perfect employee, but the fact that i'm honest with him and try to live my beliefs, he really  appreciates that and he even goes out of his way to hang out with me and i'm hoping eventually there will be some fruit'
Miriam nods.
Cyto says 'If i just said everything was fine when really i wwas dyeing'
Cyto says 'and made some stupid excuse when really i had messed up, i'm not sure it would be like that'
Cyto says 'when someone confronts me with something i did wrong its like i'm a little kid again and my parents are asking how much tv i watched yesterday, but healing enough to be confident enough not to be that kid or to answer truthfully even though we do feel like hthat kid, can really make a difference'
Mmelville nods.
Mmelville says 'sorry to bother you but how do i get refreshment?'
Cyto says 'look in table, then get item table'
Mmelville says 'sorry but tyvm'
Cyto says 'vayrim you said that when you admit mistakes to non-christians you usually get yelled at'
Vayrim says 'Yeah, that's how it was years ago.'
Cyto says 'what kind of midset does that put you in'
Cyto says 'mindset'
Vayrim says 'Well, to this day I'm still shy about talking to people about things.'
Cyto says 'all things or particularly things where you feel they might judge'
Vayrim says 'Mainly things where I'm afraid people might judge. Also, it makes it hard for me to think straight when I'm talking. As a result, I often leave out important details like i just did.'
Cyto nods.
Vayrim says 'It also sometimes causes me to say the wrong thing.'
Cyto says 'do you feel unsafe right now?'
Vayrim says 'Yes. I often do feel unsafe when I'm talking about anything important.'
Mmelville nods.
Cyto says 'what could we do to make you feel safer'
Cyto says 'like if we limited our responces to only acknowledging what you said would that help?'
Vayrim says 'Thank you for asking, but I don't really know right now.'
Cyto nods at Vayrim.
Cyto says 'okay well remember you don't have to participate anymore than you want to, though when you do take risks, it can mean you grow faster, but you can always just listen'
Vayrim says 'I think one of the problems has been that, in the past, people have often assumed I was expecting them to fix my problems when all I really wanted was some emotional support. At best, I didn't get the emotional support. At worst, the other person would yell at me.'
Vayrim says 'I think I should probably mention that I don't have any close friends anymore. It's like I've lost the ability to feel close friendships with other people.'
Cyto comforts Vayrim.
Cyto says 'thats awful hard, it sounds like you're not entirely happy with the situation, like you'd like the support but just don't know how to get past whatever's stopping you'
Cyto says 'like maybe the fear of people who hurt you in the past'
Mmelville nods.
Wargreymon nods.
Vayrim says 'There's one thing in particular that hurts me terribly, though thinking about it makes me afraid I might be committing idolatry.'
Vayrim says 'It hurts me terribly when people don't understand how important creativity is to me.'
Wargreymon nods.
Cyto says 'thinking about your fear of people and desire for friends?'
Miriam nods at Vayrim.
Vayrim says 'This has ranged from small things (such as people expecting me to create a generally played type of character in an RPG) to big things (like somebody telling me I'm a fool because I write poetry.)'
Cyto nods.
Wargreymon encompasses Vayrim in an ENORMOUS bearhug!
Vayrim gives Wargreymon a brotherly hug.
Cyto says 'could you explain the idolatry concern a bit more'
Cyto says 'i'm not sure i understand'
Miriam comforts Vayrim.
Vayrim says 'Yes. I'm wondering if, by caring so strongly about creativity, in some cases strongly enough that it drives a wedge between me and other people (some of whom are Christians,) I've made creativity into an idol.'
Cyto nods.
Mmelville says 'br'
Mmelville says 'br'
Mmelville says 'brb*'
Vayrim says 'I should probably mention that I try to use creativity as a way to serve God. I've written some Christian poetry in an effort to glorify God, and I have a page on my game website that proclaims the Gospel.'
Miriam beams a smile at Vayrim.
Cyto says 'I can see how that could be very conflicting, creativity is pretty important to me too, and it can become a bit of an ideal, serving God is paramount and other people and I know how sometimes one can think, if they were really christians or really friends they'd understand, "i should be able to do this without people hating me", it can be really hard when that seems not to be the case'
Vayrim says 'I do feel like talking about this is freeing me up. I see what you meant about being honest and vulnerable, Cyto.'
Cyto beams a smile at Vayrim.
Vayrim hugs Cyto.
Cyto says 'well thats what the bodies for, its what scripture says'
Cyto gives Vayrim a brotherly hug.
Cyto says 'lets take a look at some of the ways God talks about us being able to be strong in him'
Vayrim listens intently.
Cyto says 'these are ways he protects us, but also gives us power'
Cyto says '6:11  Put on the full armor of God, so that you will be able to stand firm against the schemes of the devil.'
Cyto says 'when we go through these struggles, Why?'
Vayrim says 'I'm not managing to come up with an answer. Sorry.'
Miriam says 'well, when we are physically hurt, like with a broken leg, we excercise to make it stronger'
Cyto nods.
Cyto says 'why do we go through these struggles'
Miriam says 'when we suffer, God uses that pain to make us stronger'
Cyto nods.
Cyto says 'he does do that'
Cyto says 'however'
Cyto says 'we are to be strong against the schemes of the devil'
Cyto says 'God is not responsible for suffering, the devil is, and us'
Miriam nods.
Cyto says 'part of the armor of God is the shield of faith, which protects us against the fiery darts of the enemy'
Cyto says 'knowing that its the devil and not God or just chance that brings on the misery is helpful'
Cyto says 'well sometimes its our own fault but in a way its still the evil forces working in the world'
Cyto says 'when we know that this is not random, not purposeless, that God has a reason for allowing it, but is not responsible for it that God works all things to our Good (those who love him) that he is Good, and stuff like that'
Cyto says 'it helps to not feel so depressed and hopeless when excretion happens'
Vayrim says 'There are many times in the Bible when God punishes people for their sins with intense suffering.'
Cyto says 'God is good and never does evil'
Cyto says 'there are times when God's judgement was poured out upon the earth'
Cyto says 'but often times people feel the problem of pain'
Mmelville says 'soz im here'
Cyto says 'sure we can understand why the priests of ashteroth were allowed to be exectuted but do we really understand why a little girl was allowed to be a parapalegic or why god gave us a daughter with autism or why our boss decides to let us go on the day our baby is about to be born and our uncle  calls to tell us he's accusing ous of something we didn't do, now is that God, we can't claim to be perfect, and we can't claim that God will use this for bad, but at the same time its hard to claim that a little '
Cyto says 'girl with disabilities is "good" or that the multiple evils poured on us in one day is "good", it makes one wonder where it comes from'
Mmelville nods.
Cyto says 'i totally get you Vay that God does judge at times'
Cyto says 'and you can't say what he does is wrong'
Cyto says 'but there are some things that happen in the world that God allows but aren't necessarily God's best desire'
Vayrim says 'Nothing that God does is wrong. He is perfect.'
Cyto says 'right'
Cyto says 'but God doesn't do everything'
Cyto says 'example'
Cyto says 'in one place in the bible God wanted to know what was going to be done about a king'
Cyto says 'and some spirits came up to God and said the various things they'd do and one deceiving spirit came up to him and said he'd go to a prophet and give the prophet bad information and thus deceive the king'
Cyto says 'now its never God's desire that a lie be told, God is truth, he is not a liar, lyeing is anaethema to him, obviously'
Cyto says 'but he allowed the lie to happen'
Cyto says 'it served his purpose'
Vayrim nods.
Amfortas says 'Where is that story?'
Cyto says 'i think perhaps if everyone was perfect, they wouldn't be able to be affected by the deceiving spirits, and the king wouldn't have listened, but people are imperfect, and we are subject to sin to an extent'
Cyto says 'this was also before Yeshua sent the Spirit'
Cyto says 'the point is since we're not perfect we cant claim that we have an absolute right to be totally immune from all effects of this dyeing world'
Cyto says 'and that said we need to rely heavily on the strength of God to protect against the fiery darts of the enemy and the schemes of the devil'
Cyto says 'and sorry amfortas off hand i'm not sure if i had to take a guess i'd say in one of the books of history kings samuel or chronicles'
Cyto says 'but if you want to do a search look for deceiving spirit(S) or lieing spirit(s)'
Cyto says 'okay we got 6 more minutes'
Cyto says '6:12  For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places. 6:13  Therefore *, take up the full armor of God, so that you will be able to resist in the evil day, and having done everything , to stand firm. 6:14  Stand firm therefore, HAVING GIRDED YOUR LOINS WITH TRUTH, and HAVING PUT ON THE BREASTPLATE OF RIGHTEOUSNESS'
Cyto says 'are there any thoughts about this passage or my comments?'
Vayrim says 'For the moment, my only thought is that this is a passage I should really think about.'
Amfortas says 'Apologize for digressing, but what are the asterisks in you scripture quotations?'
Cyto says 'they are from the nasb text, i'm not sure the significance'
Cyto says '22 "The LORD said to him, 'How?' And he said, 'I will go out and be R836 a deceiving spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.' Then He said, 'You are to entice im and also prevail. Go and do so.'  '
Cyto says '1 kings 22 5 - 28'
Amfortas nods at Cyto.
Cyto says 'looking back at the text'
Cyto says 'it appears to be a word that may not have been translated either due to grammar (it looks clearer without it) or dispute of whether it should be there, i'd guess grammar but not sure'
Cyto says 'its the word houtos (this, these)'
Cyto sighs.
Cyto says 'okay this has been a journey'
Cyto says 'we could go on for quite some time, but same bible time same bible channel, friday'
Cyto says 'lets pray'
Vayrim nods.
Cyto says 'Dear Jesus, we praise you and thankyou and glofiry your name'
Cyto says 'God please let this study be a blessing to everyone'
Cyto says 'help us to do your will'
Cyto says 'and help us to live your message this week'
Miriam nods.
Cyto says 'God please touch our hearts work in us, and give us the power to help everyone you put in our path, give us the love to overflow, so that others will want you and feel your awesomeness and will overflow to us, God thankyou we praise you and glorify your name'
Cyto says 'Holy and righteous and perfect'
Cyto says 'Worhty'
Cyto gives praise to The Creator.
Cyto says 'Allelujah'
Cyto softly says amen.
Amfortas boldly proclaims 'Amen!'
Amfortas says 'Thanks, Cyto.'
Cyto smiles happily.
Miriam smiles happily.
Vayrim says 'Amen.'
Cyto gives everyone a big group hug!
Cyto gives Vayrim a brotherly hug.
Miriam grins mischievously.
Cyto gives Miriam a brotherly hug.
Cyto gives Amfortas a brotherly hug.
Vayrim says 'Thank you all for a very nice time! Praise the Lord!'
Cyto scratches Eusebius behind the ears.
Cyto scratches Eusebius behind the ears.