Bible Study log
Cyto says '6:12  For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places.'
Cyto says 'okay lookie there'
Cyto says 'read that again'
Vayrim says 'Alrighty, I read it.'
Cyto says 'now i want you to take a moment and think what your average atheist or nominal christian would think about that statement'
Cyto says 'now consider what they might think about those who believe in such a statement'
Cyto says 'now consider how their lack of belief in it might change the things they might do in their lives and how a Christian's belief in it might change the things they do in their life'
Cyto says 'take a moment for that'
Cyto says 'follow that path for a few logical steps'
Cyto says 'okay tell me what you got'
Vayrim says 'Based on that statement, an atheist would probably think we were crazy.'
Cyto nods in enthusiastic agreement with Vayrim.
Vayrim says 'An atheist might see that statement as the words of a madman.'
Cyto says 'what do you think the atheist would think we would do and what do you think they would think would be wrong with it'
Vayrim says 'An atheist might misinterpret part of it (against the rulers) and think we were anti-government.'
Cyto says 'heh, well a lot of christians are'
Cyto says 'though not necessarily because of biblical command'
Vayrim says 'Doesn't the Bible say to obey the government?'
Cyto nods in enthusiastic agreement with Vayrim.
Vayrim says 'Also, they would probably expect us to go about dealing with problems in ways that wouldn't work.'
Cyto says 'like what'
Vayrim says 'They would expect us to pray (something that actually does work,) and some of them might even expect us to perform elaborate exorcism rituals involving things we wouldn't actually do.'
Cyto nods.
Cyto says 'those are all quite likely thoughts on the atheists mind'
Cyto says 'although some christians do do exorcisms'
Vayrim says 'I actually once had somebody say that Christians still burn animals as sacrifices.'
Cyto says 'well there are a lot of people who are very misinformed'
Miriam nods.
Vayrim says 'That's my point.'
Cyto says 'okay but what about on the atheists side how might their belief that there are no spiritual forces of wickedness, influence them'
Cyto says 'or no spiritual forces of any kind'
Vayrim says 'My point was, the atheists in our example might assume we would do things we really wouldn't. As for how that belief would influence them, it might cause them to try to deal with their problems using only earthly means, and try to push Christians to do the same.'
Vayrim says 'Oops! I messed that up. Let me rephrase that.'
Vayrim says 'An atheist's lack of belief in spiritual forces might cause them to try to deal with their problems using only earthly means, and try to push Christians to do the same.'
Cyto says 'heh'
Vayrim blushes.
Cyto says 'okay any other thoughts'
Miriam says 'some nonbelievers might take the opposite point of view also.. that since we are concerned with the spiritual, we should not be involved in worldly things at all -- such as voting or taking out the trash'
Vayrim says 'Yeah. I think I need to proofread what I type!'
Cyto says 'thats okay typing faster is better, we can muddle through mistakes, as long as your understandable'
Cyto says 'man if I proof read what i typed we'd be hear for More hours'
Vayrim chuckles politely.
Miriam chuckles at Cyto's joke.
Cyto nods at Miriam.
Cyto says 'i think in many cases that belief is because they just want a reason to dismiss the oposing point of view'
Vayrim says 'A very good point, Miriam.'
Cyto says 'though i think sometimes it has to do with their belief that our belief in the supernatural will cause us to make bad decisions'
Miriam says 'possibly.  but the underlying root is still misinformation'
Cyto says 'or sensuality'
Vayrim says 'I need to be afk for now. Sorry.'
Cyto says 'they may not want christian influence in society because they want to do what they want to do'
Cyto says 'lets think for a moment about what '
Cyto beams a smile at Vayrim.
Cyto says 'the christian will think differently'
Cyto says 'and act differently'
Cyto says 'how will that work?'
Cyto says 'if you have any ideas pipe up, if you don't want to say anything for the moment just nudge me'
Miriam says 'a Christian should have a better work ethic, at least in theory. '
Cyto says 'well no'
Cyto says 'thats true'
Miriam says 'if we are working with the attitude of everything we do being done for the glory of God, then we should  put more effort into whatever task we are performing'
Cyto says 'but here we're considering specifically'
Cyto says 'how we should be different because'
Cyto says '6:12  For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places.'
Cyto says 'our belief is that'
Cyto says 'there are other reasons why we should do all the things God tells us'
Cyto says 'but when we realize the specific knowledge that we are engaged in a spiritual struggle with real angels and demons and such, what will that change?'
Miriam says 'well, we believe that we are working toward an eternal reward.  a nonbeliever thinks that this is all there is'
Cyto says 'God created heaven and hell'
Cyto says 'but we're talking here about the struggle to get there'
Cyto says 'that its more complicated then you will be judged on your deeds'
Cyto says 'We are not struggleing against flesh and blood'
Cyto says 'but against the rulers, the powers the world forces of this darkness '
Cyto says 'against spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places'
Miriam says 'sorry  lots of distractions tonight'
Cyto nods.
Cyto nods.
Cyto says 'okay nudge me if you want me to just start sharing'
Miriam says 'I'm not on the same wavelength with you tonight'
Cyto says 'okay'
Cyto says 'well what I see is this'
Cyto says 'if there are real devils influencing things'
Cyto says 'then when we look at the world'
Cyto says 'we're not just looking at randomness'
Miriam nods.
Miriam says 'ok  I can see that'
Cyto says 'we're looking at two opposing forces working out their plans with humanity as the prize and the tool'
Miriam says 'looking at what's happening behind the scenes, so to speak'
Cyto nods.
Cyto says 'so when you see a television program and see that there are some bad elements in it'
Cyto says 'if you are looking it as just what it is, you might say oh well thats just a coincidence or it doesn't mean anything'
Cyto says 'they have no reason for putting it in there its just entertainment'
Cyto says 'but if you believe that nothin is an accident then when you see those things you begin to think, what is the purpose of the forces of evil in exposing me to this'
Cyto says 'or what is God's plan in me seeing this'
Miriam nods.
Cyto says 'the atheist will cry irrelevance, but more and more those cries are being proven to be ignorant'
Cyto says 'intelligent design is showing more and more a design in the structure of the universe, behavioral science is showing correlations between media and behaviour, history is showing correlation to the biblical prophecies, the countless every day miracles show how God works in peoples lives and structures them for his purposes'
Miriam nods.
Miriam says 'that's true'
Cyto says 'man simply giving into their normal nature shows how destructive it is to relationships, sometimes people wake up and realize what their saying and they ask themselves why am i destroying my relationship and hurting my wife, i know what i'm doing yet look at what is coming out of my mouth'
Cyto says 'its not until we take conscious intentional control of our speech that we stop being hurtful and start being a blessing'
Cyto says 'any thoughts on that?'
Cyto smiles happily.
Vayrim says 'I'm back. Sorry about that.'
Cyto nods.
Miriam says 'I think when anyone stops and takes the time to really look at things, the workings of the spiritual world become more apparent'
Cyto nods.
Miriam says 'I think that like most other things, it just takes attention'
Cyto says 'i meant specifically about the relationship part'
Miriam says 'if our relationships are supposed to be a reflection of our relationship with God, then when we succomb to the influences of the demons and evil, and allow them to pervert our relationships with man, it also impacts our relationship with God'
Cyto nods.
Vayrim nods.
Miriam says 'when we hurt people through our words or actions, we fail to act as representatives of Christ'
Cyto nods.
Cyto nods.
Cyto says 'have you ever had that experience where you were in an acerbic confrontation with someone and your words were harsh and then you just stopped and asked yourself what you were doing and why you were doing it and realized you weren't serving Christ  and wondered why you were doing what you were doing'
Cyto says 'poke me if I should continue'
Cyto says 'or press enter'
Miriam says 'my niece is throwing her ball on my keyboard ;)'
Cyto says 'ah'
Miriam says 'kind of makes it hard to read and respond'
Miriam falls down laughing.
Cyto says 'well that makes things easier'
Vayrim pokes Cyto in the ribs.
Cyto says 'okay well that has happened to me on several occasions'
Cyto says 'and at those times I felt used'
Cyto says 'I felt like I wonder if I really am being used by the forces of darkness to bring discord'
Cyto says 'and i was Like i need a God check'
Cyto says 'and I prayed that God wuld not let me be influenced by any outside forces except him'
Cyto says 'if you are aware that there are forces other than yourself at work, than when you do something other than what you think you should be doing you can check yourself'
Cyto says 'and say Hrrmmmm'
Cyto says 'When you find yourself doing that which you would not do, then you should ask yourself who wants you to do it'
Miriam nods.
Cyto says 'say now if you are strictly a naturalist you might believe that everything that crosses your mind ist truly your desire'
Cyto says 'but if you are wise you may notice that many of the notions are actually not your desire'
Cyto says 'so then free will is seen by having God showing this and God giving us the powr to change'
Cyto says 'now some might disagree with the term Free Will but it is God who gives us the power to choose life over death'
Vayrim nods.
Cyto says 'if you believe that there are indeed powers and principalities working than one might be more disposed to believe that there is a concerted anti-christian agenda that there is some organization to the opposition against life affirming values that there is a corrolation between one anti christian view and another that there is a correlation between action and consequence'
Cyto says 'If i could encourage you to do something tonight, DON;T BE SHEEP'
Cyto says 'in the sense of stupidity'
Cyto says 'realize that a movie is not just a movie, a law in south dakota is not just a law in south dakota, , one little law is not benign, the deep seated patterns of emotional dynamics are not just merely the result of environmental stresses'
Cyto says 'some christians will claim that psychology is worthless'
Cyto says 'and in as much as some psychologists won't deal with the underlying spiritual problems there is something in that'
Cyto says 'however Scripture is probably the most important tools and the power of God for healing the broken, that said though psychology can be very useful when combined '
Cyto says 'but realize that that psychological problem isn't just psychological, and you in all likelyhood need some spiritual work'
Cyto says 'know if you are going to follow God you are going to face hardships and troubles'
Cyto says 'my friend who said he wanted to commit suicide'
Cyto says 'got mad at God, '
Cyto says 'How could God allow this'
Cyto says 'when you become a christian it doesn't become easier'
Cyto says 'it becomes harder, the Devil gets interested'
Cyto says 'many people have been tested and such because of the trials'
Cyto says 'when my church women's group went on retreat there was driving rain, when my mens group got up there the transformer blew, when we were going out to evangelize the car died'
Vayrim says 'Some preachers say that following Christ makes things easy, even though this is clearly not what the Bible teaches.'
Cyto says 'there is one way in which it is true'
Vayrim listens intently.
Cyto says 'you will not have to deal with the stupid problems that woul arise from you breaking God's laws'
Cyto says 'i mean when you follow God's rules, you will have many fewer negative consequences'
Cyto says 'that said however'
Cyto says 'you still will find many external consequences, consequences from when you fail, and consequences left over from before you were a christian'
Cyto says 'but many problems are averted by being a christian, in that you are living According to God's will and the more you are sanctified in the wisdom of the LORD the more you are able to deal with life'
Cyto says 'somehow there seem to be many troubles that come against'
Cyto shrugs helplessly.
Cyto says 'so what kind of attack might evil forces bring'
Vayrim says 'A common one in the Bible is persecution.'
Cyto says 'well they might bring depression, they might interfere wwith plans, just to keep you isolated, they m;ight  see yourmost sinful area and bring you into a situation where that might come out'
Cyto says 'they might even bring so much against you that you question God'
Cyto says 'how could a good God allow such things'
Cyto says 'when in fact such things are allowed because God is good, and he has his purposes for allwing it.  Maybe to refine us'
Vayrim nods.
Cyto says 'maybe, i dunno, but he does have his reasons'
Cyto says 'a;nd its not him'
Cyto says 'when you see this stuff happening, make a conscious prayer right then, and put away anything between you get;ting trust in him'
Cyto says 'whether it be emotions or television'
Vayrim says 'That sounds like very good advice.'
Cyto says 'of course emotions aren't that easy to put aside, but with certain knowledge we can try to control them, which someimes can be the most loving thing to do'
Cyto says 'and at least not let them make us make bad decisions that will hurt people;'
Cyto says 'there are more tips in the following verses'
Cyto says 'but for tonight, i'm too tired to go on'
Cyto says 'would someone like to close'
Cyto says 'or make a comment'
Wargreymon shakes her head no.
Vayrim says 'Dear Lord in Heaven, thank You very much for the opportunity to learn, worship, pray, and fellowship tonight.'
Cyto says 'Precious Lord we thankyou for our time together your blessings and death, for everythingGod thankyou help us and make us live it'
Cyto softly says amen.