Bible Study log
Cyto beams a smile at FionaRose.
Cyto says 'hey there fi'
Nemch says 'ok'
Cyto says 'we're doing romans 15'
Cyto says 'the last part'
FionaRose says 'Okay'
Cyto says 'verses 22 - end'
Cyto says 'with 21 for context'
Cyto says 'but as it is written, "THEY WHO HAD NO NEWS OF HIM SHALL SEE, AND THEY WHO HAVE NOT HEARD SHALL UNDERSTAND." 15:22 For this reason I have often been prevented from coming to you, 15:23 but now, with no further place for me in these regions, and since I have had for many years a longing to come to you 15:24 whenever * I go to Spain --for I hope to see you in passing, and to be helped on my way there by you, when I have first enjoyed your company for a while -- 15:25 but now, I am going to Jerusalem serv'
Cyto says 'serving the saints. 15:26 For Macedonia and Achaia have been pleased to make a contribution for the poor among the saints in Jerusalem. 15:27 Yes, they were pleased to do so, and they are indebted to them. For if the Gentiles have shared in their spiritual things, they are indebted to minister to them also in material'
Amahl says 'totally forgot'
Cyto says 'things. 15:28 Therefore, when I have finished this, and have put my seal on this fruit of theirs, I will go on by way of you to Spain. 15:29 I know that when I come to you, I will come in the fullness of the blessing of Christ. 15:30 Now I urge you, brethren, by our Lord Jesus Christ and by the love of the Spirit, to strive together with me in your prayers to God for me, 15:31 that I may be rescued from those who are disobedient in Judea, and that'
Cyto says 'my service for Jerusalem may prove acceptable to the saints, 15:32 so that I may come to you in joy by the will of God and find refreshing rest in your company. 15:33 Now the God of peace be with you all. Amen.'
Cyto says 'romans 15 22-end'
Cyto says 'okay now who can tell me how this relates to what we studied last week'
Amahl says 'missed last week so, I'll just sit back and listen'
Cyto says 'we may think he's just taking care of business'
Cyto says 'but its more than that'
Nemch says 'he's spreadign the gospel'
Cyto says 'this fits in perfectly with the stuff he was saying before'
Cyto says 'th'
Cyto says 'this is the application of the other part of the chapter'
Nemch says 'the good news of Christ and salvation to those whom know nothing about Him'
Cyto says 'that's part of it'
Cyto says 'Last week we were focussing on the Unity of the Body of Christ as One TRUE being, united by the sacrifice of Christ, the working of the Spirit, the perfection of God's mission'
FionaRose says, 'ooOOooOOooOOoo.'
Cyto says 'If we truly desire Christ's will, if we are Truly in Him ans He is in The father, than we are One being'
Cyto says 'take a look at the last verses in THAT context'
Kendogarurumon says 'wich verses?'
Cyto says 'romans 15 22-end'
Cyto says 'I think Paul is telling the Church something'
~Verse to Room from Amahl~<br>
Romans 15:30-33
30 Now I beseech you, brethren, for the Lord Jesus Christ's sake, and for the love of the Spirit, that ye strive together with me in your prayers to God for me;
31 That I may be delivered from them that do not believe in Judaea; and that my service which I have for Jerusalem may be accepted of the saints;
32 That I may come unto you with joy by the will of God, and may with you be refreshed.
33 Now the God of peace be with you all. Amen.
Cyto says 'any takers?'
Cyto beams a smile at Kendogarurumon.
Kendogarurumon says 'hes trying to tell them to pray for him'
Cyto says 'errm you actually missed the crucial verse'
~Verse to Room from Cyto~<br>
Romans 15:22-33
22 For which cause also I have been much hindered from coming to you.
23 But now having no more place in these parts, and having a great desire these many years to come unto you;
24 Whensoever I take my journey into Spain, I will come to you: for I trust to see you in my journey, and to be brought on my way thitherward by you, if first I be somewhat filled with your company.
25 But now I go unto Jerusalem to minister unto the saints.
26 For it hath pleased them of Macedonia and Achaia to make a certain contribution for the poor saints which are at Jerusalem.
27 It hath pleased them verily; and their debtors they are. For if the Gentiles have been made partakers of their spiritual things, their duty is also to minister unto them in carnal things.
28 When therefore I have performed this, and have sealed to them this fruit, I will come by you into Spain.
29 And I am sure that, when I come unto you, I shall come in the fulness of the blessing of the gospel of Christ.
30 Now I beseech you, brethren, for the Lord Jesus Christ's sake, and for the love of the Spirit, that ye strive together with me in your prayers to God for me;
31 That I may be delivered from them that do not believe in Judaea; and that my service which I have for Jerusalem may be accepted of the saints;
32 That I may come unto you with joy by the will of God, and may with you be refreshed.
33 Now the God of peace be with you all. Amen.
Nemch says 'that we allneed to be of one accord in praying for one another to achieve the will of God?'
Cyto says 'read the whole thing'
Cyto says 'lets break it down'
Cyto says 'Paul is saying He's continuing on a Missionary Journey'
Nemch nods.
Kendogarurumon nods.
Cyto says 'he's also reminding them about spiritual debt'
Cyto says 'It mentions the Gentiles in Macedonia who had been brought into the Kingdom'
Nemch says 'um. he's taking the offering that is from the Corinthians to the believers in Jerusalem because there is a famin and drought in the Honly land and the believers there need help'
Cyto says 'and had made a contributiion to the saints'
Amahl says 'and we being all part of the body, that is what should be done'
Cyto says 'Macedonia and Achaia'
Cyto nods.
Amahl says 'afk briefly, excuse me.'
Cyto says 'it specifically mentions'
Cyto says 'the way in which The macedonians had been made partakers in the fruit of the Jews, saints in Jerusalem'
Cyto says 'Grafted in'
Cyto says 'that it was proper that they should minister materielly to them'
Cyto says 'it says there is a debt there'
Cyto says 'now that's hard for me to get'
Cyto says 'because Its Christ'
Cyto says 'But in as far as there is a way in which we remember those who sacrifice to minister to us, we should remember them'
Cyto says 'well Paul is being a tad subtle i think'
Cyto says 'because then he mentions I'm coming by you'
Cyto says 'now this is the letter to the romans'
Cyto says 'Paul Ministered to the romans'
Cyto says 'Paul had a lot of fruit in Rome'
Cyto says 'And I believe he wanted the romans to remember their Debt to him'
Cyto says 'because he goes on To mention the journey he's going on'
Cyto says 'and how it is his hope they can help him Go to spain'
Cyto says 'hold on a sec'
Cyto says 'so anyway he was trying to bring out to the believers as they were one body'
Nemch says '1 Corinthians 16:1-4 and 2 Corinthians 8 and 9'
Cyto says 'it was not only their debt'
Cyto says 'but their natural function'
Cyto says 'to help in this way'
Cyto says 'see this is a thing Jews do'
Cyto says 'We're very good at Guilt'
Cyto says 'maybe even better than Catholics'
Cyto says 'Paul is saying here Help me, you really want to help me,'
Cyto says 'he's asking them to get together and act as one body spiritually and materielly'
Cyto says 'as is seen in the request for prayers'
Cyto says 'and He's showing his desire for the fision of the church in the last few verses'
Cyto says '15:31 that I may be rescued from those who are disobedient in Judea, and that my service for Jerusalem may prove acceptable to the saints, 15:32 so that I may come to you in joy by the will of God and find refreshing rest in your company. 15:33 Now the God of peace be with you all. Amen.'
Cyto says 'okay comments or questions'
Cyto says 'none'
Nemch says 'they started the collection because they wanted to do it and paul was testing to see how genuine they really were about it. 2 Corinthians 8:8-13'
Cyto says 'well beyond seeing if they were genuine, there was the genuine practical need'
Cyto says 'Paul was the sort of dude who was teaching everyone and prodding everyone'
Cyto says 'to do what they were supposed to do'
Amahl says 'he was leading by example'
Cyto says 'it wasn't just about helping him'
Cyto says 'though that was important'
Cyto says 'because the work needed to continue'
Cyto says 'and Paul did have issues (i believe) with feeling abandoned and depression'
Cyto says 'It seemed like a lot of cases in the church today'
Cyto says 'some people will really be on fire'
Cyto says 'We need to have Christ's perspective'
Cyto says 'ready to help'
Cyto says 'to make ourselves uncomfortable'
Cyto says 'get out of our zone'
Cyto says 'and Do God'
Cyto says 'God's work'
Nemch says 'acts 11:28-30'
Cyto says 'we're not here for our own work'
Cyto says 'if you want to quote a verse'
Cyto says 'Verse to room acts 11 28 30'
~Verse to Room from Cyto~<br>
Acts 11:28-30
28 And there stood up one of them named Agabus, and signified by the Spirit that there should be great dearth throughout all the world: which came to pass in the days of Claudius Caesar.
29 Then the disciples, every man according to his ability, determined to send relief unto the brethren which dwelt in Judaea:
30 Which also they did, and sent it to the elders by the hands of Barnabas and Saul.
Cyto says 'i'm not just talking about money though'
Cyto says 'its about time'
Cyto says 'its about getting up and being ready to be used'
Cyto says 'to take someone in your home even when you don't have much room and your family isn't thrilled'
Cyto says 'to get up at 3 in the morning to help a sick friend'
Cyto says 'to Hold the head of someone you don't like over the toilet bowl when they throw up'
Cyto says 'its one thing for your wife, its another thing for the dude who just slugged you and insulted you'
Cyto coughs loudly.
Cyto says 'sorry'
Amahl says 'but both still deserve that same sort of love (outside the marrital stuff of course)'
Cyto says 'um my point is There are gonna be people in the church who are on fire and some people who aren't really living according to the mind of Christ, at least not to that extent'
Cyto says 'Paul is saying we need to be functioning as one body'
Cyto says 'and it shouldn't be a special effort'
Cyto says 'it should be a continual part of life'
Cyto says 'in corinthians he said take a collection every week'
Cyto says 'its a continual part of life'
Nemch says 'I understand what your saying. We can talk later, if youd like. I do not wish to debate right here in front of everyone. please continue with the class. I felt you were misrepresenting what was being said and clarified the scriptures'
Cyto says 'hrm?'
Cyto says 'seriously if you think I'm misrepresenting something go for it, as long as its civil'
Nemch says 'please continue with the class, we can talk later'
Cyto says 'that's what the study is for'
Amahl says 'Nemch, discussion is strongly encouraged in our studies'
Cyto says 'man you should see me and brandy'
Kendogarurumon says 'yi['
Cyto says 'Hah'
Kendogarurumon says 'yup'
Kendogarurumon grins mischievously.
Cyto says 'do we have any of the studies with me and brandy "having fun"'
Amahl says 'I'm sure they're out in the logs'
Cyto must like Amahl a great deal to beam at him so broadly!
Cyto says 'anyway i should be talking less'
Nemch says 'Cyto says 'he's also reminding them about spiritual debt' <-- there was no debt, they did it of their own accord'
Kendogarurumon nods.
Cyto nods at Nemch.
Cyto nods at Nemch.
Cyto says 'I know what your saying'
Cyto says 'that disturbs me too'
Cyto says 'which is why i qualified'
Cyto says 'its really all Christ'
Cyto says 'and why I said i didn't understand it'
Cyto says 'totally'
Cyto says 'Paul says that there is a debt a person has to those who shared the Gospel with them'
Cyto says 'in a few places'
Cyto says 'Obviously its all the work of Christ'
Nemch says 'the debt of Chirst dieing on the cross in our place?'
Cyto says 'as one body, we are all in the same p'
Kendogarurumon says 'hold up cyto'
Cyto says 'as one body, we are all in the same position'
Kendogarurumon says 'kelly is coming'
Kendogarurumon smiles happily.
FionaRose beams a smile at Wargreymon.
Kendogarurumon says 'no correction'
Wargreymon says '(--|CuratorS> was sleeping irl'
Kendogarurumon says 'kelly is here'
Kendogarurumon falls down laughing.
Cyto nods at Wargreymon.
Kendogarurumon hugs Wargreymon.
FionaRose says 'May I offer a thought?'
Nemch says 'in rev 3:20 it says that Christ stands at the door and knocks. He doesnt kick it down, He stands and knocks.'
Cyto says 'it says that the Worker is worthy of his wages'
FionaRose says 'I don't know if it has already been mentioned while I was off canoodling..'
Cyto nods at FionaRose.
Cyto says 'you may share'
Cyto says 'you have to clarify that nemch'
Nemch says 'there is a reason that we have been given free will, and that is that Christ wants us to do something, not because we fell we must. he wants us to do it out of sincere love. He wants our obediance becase we wish to obey'
Cyto says 'that's true'
Nemch says 'God does not wished to be viewed as a slave driver. He is a loving and caring father'
Nemch says 'let me get another verse'
FionaRose says 'I think the idea of debt is connected to the idea of sacrifice... even though we are all one in Christ, if one part sacrifices for the other, the wellbeing of the whole depends on the part that recieved in turn sacrificing something to maintain the balance and the connections'
Cyto says 'maybe spiritual debt is the wrong word'
Cyto says 'I'm not sure'
Cyto says 'its a debt'
Cyto says 'its beause of your spirit'
Cyto says 'but it might not be spiritual debt in that sense'
Cyto says 'Something like that Fiona'
~Verse to Room from Nemch~<br>
2_corinthians 9:7
Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.
Cyto says 'I think its something that you need to look at on more than one level'
FionaRose agrees absolutely.
Nemch says 'God doesnt want you to give something because you feel you have to, He wants you to give it because you want to from the heart'
Nemch says 'did that make sence?'
Cyto says 'I think its better to give it because you want to from your heart'
Cyto says 'I think on another level'
Nemch says 'thats what the verse says :)'
~Verse to Room from Nemch~<br>
2_corinthians 9:7
Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.
Cyto says 'not everyone is there yet'
Cyto says 'Its better to do God's will grudgingly, than not obey at all'
~Verse to Room from Nemch~<br>
1_corinthians 13:5
Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
Wargreymon nods.
Nemch says 'i think that is the wrong one'
Cyto says 'I think God honors obedience to Him and if you start out grudgingly, he will still wor through that'
Nemch says 'one of em says that love doesnt for its own way'
Nemch says 'force*'
Cyto says 'God says he reveals himself to those that obey him'
Cyto nods at Amahl.
Amahl says 'there's also the parable of the two workers.'
Nemch says 'yeah, but i only use the one on the server to quote from, I read from Gods Word here at my house'
Cyto says 'So even if you start out Grudgingly, I think God can work through that to bring you into the Love'
Nemch says 'i think if you find you dont want to give, be honest with God about it and God will change your heart on the matter'
Amahl says 'both, the master told to do a job. One said "yes sir!" but then didn't do it, the other said he couldn't, but then did it anyway. Which was doing what they should?'
Cyto says 'well i'm not just talking about giving'
Cyto says 'I'm talking about obedience and serving and helping people'
Nemch says 'amal is correct'
Cyto says 'you might say you don't want to give'
Cyto says 'but what if You don't want to Not have sex with people other than your wife'
Cyto says 'you could say well I shouldn't obey God because I don't really want to, it would be grudging'
Nemch says 'I am learning purity right now too'
Cyto says 'yet you sacrifice for God'
Nemch says 'so I am not one to speak ont hat'
Cyto says 'now it may be grudging, you may be totally self interested, not wanting to be punished by God, yelled at by your wife, and obtain diseases'
Cyto says 'But You will still be doing better to obey God'
Cyto says 'God's laws usually (if not always) have a practical point'
Cyto says 'and besides that you will find that when you obey God's laws'
Cyto says 'you see His plan'
Cyto says 'and see God working in your life THROUGH your obedience'
Cyto says 'that will Bring you to Love God'
Cyto says 'well that's been my experience'
Cyto says 'when you look at debt'
Cyto says 'there are different kinds'
Cyto says 'there's the kind that a man owes another man for lending him money'
Cyto says 'then there's the kind that a man owes God for saving him'
Cyto says 'then there's the kind a man owes God for sinning against him'
Cyto says 'then there's the kind a man owes another man for sinning against him'
Nemch says 'No, you are right. He still desires it to be something from the heart. I found that if it is something your not wanting to do, admit it to God 1 John 1:9 and God helps me out with changing my heart to where I want to do something out of sincerity'
FionaRose eeps!
Cyto says 'then you could look at the debt that the gentiles had to the Jews for coming into their Spiritual place'
Cyto says 'you might not say that's a debt'
Cyto says 'it was God's plan'
Cyto says 'and what did the Jews do?'
Cyto says 'but there is a sense of that being a debt'
Cyto says 'it depends on your perspective'
Cyto says 'So when Paul says debt'
Cyto says 'Who has Given to God that God should repay Him?'
Cyto says 'We all owe God so much that anything we Do for others, we Owe'
Cyto says 'its natural and acceptable'
Cyto says 'on the other hand a worker is deserving of his pay, and its impolite to forget something that someone did for you'
Cyto says 'you should not hold the debt over someone's head'
Cyto says 'on the other hand they should not forget'
Cyto says 'It was through you Christ was working'
Amahl says 'you sure you're not a wemic with that many hands bro?'
Cyto says 'As Fiona said though, the Gospel must continue to go out, for the Body to function properly, it needs to help each other'
Cyto says 'its a complicated issue'
Cyto says 'it takes a lot of hands'
FionaRose nods.
Amahl says 'forgive me, need to shuffle. God bless everyone'
Amahl bows deeply.
Cyto says 'look at the whole picture'
Nemch says 'it says that in 1 corinthains'
Cyto says '?'
~Verse to Room from Nemch~<br>
1_corinthians 12:12-20
12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
14 For the body is not one member, but many.
15 If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
16 And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
17 If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling?
18 But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.
19 And if they were all one member, where were the body?
20 But now are they many members, yet but one body.