Bible Study log
Cyto says 'log is on'
Cyto says 'today we're up to some interesting passages'
Cyto says 'last week we dealt with being drunk and the spiritual realities of being filled with the Holy spirit'
Cyto says '5:17  So * then * do not be foolish, but understand what the will of the Lord is. 5:18  And do not get drunk with wine, for that is dissipation, but be filled with the Spirit, 5:19  speaking to one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody with your heart to the Lord; 5:20 always giving thanks for all things in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ to God, even the Father;say okay read that over'
Cyto says 'okay read that over'
Cyto says 'raise your hands when you're done'
Cyto raises his hand in response.
Redfieldt raises his hand in response.
FionaRose raises her hand in response.
Cyto smiles happily.
Cyto says 'um everyone go vis'
Cyto says 'okay then'
Cyto says 'okay then this is showing our lives should be filled with thoughts of God and spiritual things, our minds need to be conformed to Christ who has sent his Spirit to be in us, just as Christ is in the Father we must be in Him, and Christ Conforms himself to the Father'
Jazmine nods.
Cyto says 'the more we think on things That are of Christ and are the things He'd approve of the more we talk to him and praise him and do the things he did, the more our minds become like his mind, the human brain was made so it becomes like what it focusses on'
Cyto says 'this is a great blessing in that we can become like our creator'
Cyto says 'but we need to do it intentionally'
Cyto says 'okay next thing'
Cyto says 'now bear in mind the next thing comes next'
Cyto says 'when paul is writing this he's writing a letter, its not disjointed, he's not listing things that have no relation to each other'
Jazmine says 'well i should hope so ;)'
Jazmine snickers softly.
Cyto says 'so the thing he writes next should be related to what he wrote last'
Cyto says '5:21 and be subject to one another in the fear of Christ.'
Cyto says 'okay who can explain to me the answer to my next question'
Cyto says 'anyone wanna take a guess?'
Redfieldt says 'sure'
Cyto says 'kewl'
Cyto waits patiently.
Redfieldt says 'and be subject to one another in the respect of Christ, one of the last things Christ did was wash the disciples feet'
Cyto nods sagely at Redfieldt.
Cyto says 'Jesus was subject to God, he hubled himself to be subject to man, he paid the tax, he washed the disciples feet'
Miriam says 'sorry  I'm having some lag'
Jazmine hugs Miriam.
Cyto says 'if you talk to a Moslem they say that one of their problems with Christianity is that they don'e believe God could lower herself.....er himself to be a man, to have to do the disgusting things men do like poop and stuff, that being born of a woman and walking around is just beneath God and that his greatness precludes it'
Cyto says 'but as one person put it the fact that he stayed on the cross proved he was God'
Cyto says 'rather than calling angels to take him off'
Miriam nods.
FionaRose says 'I hate to run off, but I need to doa  room change..'
FionaRose says 'Blessings everyone!'
Jazmine hugs FionaRose.
Miriam says 'that's a really good argument'
Redfieldt says 'one of the main reasons God became man was to expirence and prove to us, that he knows what its is like'
FionaRose hugs Jazmine.
Miriam nods.
Miriam says 'we needed a man to save us -- one like us who knew what it was to be tempted'
Cyto says 'and somehow she manaeges to scoot out Right before the best part'
Cyto says 'newhoo, yeah its also talking about spiritual disciplines'
Cyto says 'say praying humns, thinking about God, Subjecting yourself to your brothers and sisters is an important part of that'
Cyto says 'some people think its okay to just go to church and maybe confess your sins and go home and go on with your life and if someone wants to know something more you tell them politely to not get involved in your personal business, that thats stuffs only for family'
Cyto says 'part of the christian walk is knowning that the entire body of Christ is your family, that we are all responsible for AND to each other and our personal business is our brothers and sisters personal business and if we're not involving ourselves with the rest of the body of Christ'
Cyto says 'we're ignoring one of Gods most important plans for keeping us healthy'
Cyto says 'people who don't do that thend to have shallow spiritualities, or be nut jobs'
Redfieldt says 'so we are our brothers keeper'
Cyto nods sagely.
Cyto says 'and our brother is ours'
Redfieldt says 'or we are supposed to be concerned with our fellow christians wak'
Cyto says 'thats a hard thing to except'
Cyto says 'accept'
Cyto says 'its hard to humble yourself and tell someone how you really are doing'
Cyto says 'even when you know they're going to try to fix you'
Cyto says 'or they might look at you a little bit different'
Cyto says 'but that in itself is an act of trust in God'
Cyto says 'and faith'
Cyto says 'somehow i don't think we explored that last one fully though, there's so much to being subject to each other, there's so much pride tied up in everyone its so intrinsic to us, the cause of most of our problems'
Redfieldt says 'well we didn't'
Cyto says 'we need help, we're incomplete with out help, and if we don't subject ourselves to each other, we're going to be incomplete, its like a finger trying to survive without the rest of the body'
Miriam says 'well, part of being humble enough to confess is finding people, even at church, who really DO want to know how you're doing'
Redfieldt says 'while we are to be subject to each other, we aren't supposed to be how to say pushovers'
Cyto says 'that's true red'
Cyto says 'it depends on the context'
Redfieldt says 'music the devil wears prada - hey john whats your name again'
Redfieldt says 'oops'
Cyto says 'but there need to be times in our lives when we disagree with someone and still do what they say just because we respect them and we know we need to subject ourselves to our brothers , that we don't have all the answers, now there are times when everyone else is wrong, so you do need wisdom, we really just have to do our best, but tha does involve listening ot others a lot'
Cyto says 'hey leia'
Leia says 'hey :)'
Cyto bows before Leia.
Leia beams a smile at Cyto.
Cyto says 'leia any thoughts on our verse'
Cyto says 'we're taling about subjecting ourselves to one another'
Leia says 'which verse'
Cyto says '5:21 and be subject to one another in the fear of Christ.'
Redfieldt says 'id like to say this'
Cyto beams a smile at Redfieldt.
Redfieldt says 'when a brother or sister has a problem'
Redfieldt says 'and we follow the biblical instructions of dealing with it'
Redfieldt says 'go to them yourself and ask them, if they don't hear you take another mature spiritual person'
Redfieldt says 'if they ignore both of you'
Redfieldt says 'take an elder I think if they still ignore take it before the church'
Cyto says 'um take a brother then take two or three witnesses  i think'
Redfieldt says 'yeah thats it'
Cyto pokes Redfieldt in the ribs.
Redfieldt says 'so are we supposed to be subject to a brother or sister even when they are wrong'
Cyto says 'we're supposed to be subject to each other in the fear of Christ'
Leia nods.
Redfieldt says 'fear = respect'
Cyto says 'lets think about what that means'
Cyto says 'well it means both'
Redfieldt says 'so therefore if the said brother or sister doesn't respect christ we aren't supposed to be subject to them'
Cyto says 'it does mean respect but there's an actual aspect of fear there'
Redfieldt says 'correct?'
Cyto says 'that's an oversimplification'
Cyto says 'we're all supposed to be subject to Christ'
Redfieldt nods.
Cyto says 'and we're all supposed to be putting other people's needs before our own, to be respecting them and living at peace with them'
Cyto says 'there are authorities in the church'
Cyto says 'and there are places in the bible where it says its better to be wronged....then to give a bad rep to christ, sorta'
Redfieldt nods.
Leia says 'maybe submit to one another because because we respect to the Lord'
Cyto says 'thats it exactly, now the word fear there, it can mean fear'
Cyto says 'dread terror'
Redfieldt says 'I don't think its right to submit to a brother when there wrong is in direct conflict with the Lord'
Cyto says 'it can also mean reverence for one's husband'
Cyto says 'Christ is the husband of the church'
Cyto says 'so think about a husband with many wives'
Josiah grins twistedly.
Miriam shrugs helplessly.
Cyto says 'and you're one of those wives'
Cyto bonks Josiah on the head.
Josiah says 'just following directions!'
Cyto says 'now  how could those wives best behave themselves to revflect well on the husband'
Cyto says 'well in the bible there are plenty of examples of wives being catty and plotting against each other and being snarky'
Cyto says 'that doesn't show respect for the husband'
Leia says 'true'
Cyto says 'it only gives him grief'
Cyto says 'look  at samuel's dad'
Cyto says 'he was like Aren't I enough for you, at which point everyone wants to groan, but if the other wife hadn't been such a pain she wouldn't have been so sad and he would have had less grief'
Cyto says 'yes i forget the father and two wives names'
Josiah nods sagely.
Cyto says 'if a wife starts acting up in ancient middle eastern culture the hubby loses face'
Cyto says 'i mena look at it now'
Cyto says 'if a woman gets dishonored in arabic countries the family kills her becauyse it brings dishonor on the family, the woman is the honor of the family'
Josiah sits down and thinks deeply.
Redfieldt sits down and thinks deeply.
Cyto says 'so too if we're acting like average ckiquish church folks playing games seeing which intercessor the pastor will put more stock behind and if the family ministry elderess can get it over on the childrens worker an dwhat not, well that is a disgrace before brothers and the outside world alike, they know how we are and it makes them want to stay as far away from us as possible, we are the greatest single cause of atheism according to dc talk'
Leia says 'nod'
Miriam nods.
Cyto says 'so sometimes that means letting someone else be right just because thats what it means to be an adult'
Leia nods in enthusiastic agreement with Cyto.
Cyto says 'sometimes that means being a peace maker instead of a peace keeper and confronting the issues'
You hear a raspy contemplative sound come from Redfieldt. Hmmmm.
Cyto says 'and saying EXCUSE ME and going before the church body if necessary and exposing the problem so that the children aren't left to think that this is what christians are supposed to do'
Redfieldt says 'I agree cyto'
Leia nods.
Redfieldt says 'but sometimes that is very hard'
Cyto says 'in either scenario its being obedient to God's plan knowning the right place for each is a matter of wisdom often'
Cyto says 'well YEAH'
Cyto says 'sometimes its easier to imagine being a martyr'
Redfieldt says 'its far easier to die for christ than to Live for him'
Cyto says 'but its all about love'
Thaekor nods.
Cyto says 'hrm'
Cyto says 'yeah you can think about it this way'
Cyto says 'your life is lived for others, for God and his people and stuff'
Cyto says 'you submit your will to that'
Cyto says 'that measn obeying others simetimes'
Leia nods.
Cyto says 'it also means doing what God says and they dont sometimes when its the most loving thing you can do for them, and sometimes the most loving thing you can do for a person is to set boundaries tell them they're wrong and bring consequences to bear on them'
Cyto says 'but all in all you're subjecting yourself to them because you're doing what is best for them rather than you, the point is to love others and make sacrifices for them'
Cyto says 'to live humbly and meekly for God and for people rather than you'
Thaekor nods.
Redfieldt says 'nod'
Cyto says 'okay any more comments?'
Redfieldt says 'not at this time'
Cyto says 'tell me the hardest time you ever had loving someone'
Cyto says 'vollunteers'
Thaekor says 'my sister, when I knew she had my neice around things and people she shouldn't have'
Miriam sits down and thinks deeply.
Cyto nods at Thaekor.
Cyto says 'yeah thats hard'
Cyto says 'i totally get that'
Thaekor says 'I still find myself having trouble with that sometimes'
Thaekor says 'but I keep trying, and she is doing better'
Cyto nods at Thaekor.
Redfieldt says 'teens in the youth ministry when you give them sound advice and they do the exact oppisite anyway'
Cyto nods.
Leia says 'my father ... when he left my mother for her best friend ... and never really wants to spend time with me and his other childern'
Cyto nods at Leia.
Cyto says 'i can't really even begin to comprehend that'
Leia nods.
Miriam says 'a neighbor down the street for abusing girls when I was little'
Cyto nods.
Cyto says 'with me i had an experience very similar to thaekors there were a couple of kids i had gotten involved taking care of, but then there mother limited my access to them after my friend her daugther got married and she was really bad at taking care of them emotionally abusing them and exposing them to alot of inappropriate things, and i couldn't do a thing about it, though I suppose the hardest person for me is my dad'
Leia nods.
Cyto says 'cuz whenever i try to get close, he hurts me again,  he did enough when i was a kid but as much as i want to forgive, i can't have a relationship with him cuz he doesn't know how, even people who abuse me i don't see them so its easier'
Cyto says 'okay so that said..'
Miriam nods at Cyto.
Cyto says 'what did you all do to deal with the unlove and try to overcome it'
Leia says 'after about 8 years ... i decided to forgive my father ... because that is what I felt the Lord wanted me to do ... when I told him I forgave him ... he just said "It's about time"'
Cyto comforts Leia.
Redfieldt says 'I let them the teens go about there way and pray for them and love them the same when they realize they messed up'
Thaekor says 'with me, I just have to keep reminding myself that she is doing what she feels she can, and that my parents will keep an eye out for my neice to make sure she is taken care of in the long run'
Cyto nods.
Cyto nods.
Leia says 'since then I forgave him for that comment ... and I never told him ... and never will ... but I just try to be happy the once or twice a year i see him and hope that he will want to know me better someday'
Thaekor comforts Leia.
Leia says 'i try not to think about it much...'
Cyto nods.
Cyto says 'with me...when i was about 12 years old i imagined the whole world with nothing'
Cyto says 'just souls'
Cyto says 'and the people were devoid of their minds and bodies and they were just the perfect part that God wanted them to be, they just were'
Cyto says 'and i thought how precious each of those souls were each dot and how much of a tragedy it was when one was lost'
Leia nods at Cyto.
Cyto says 'then i thought about the other stuff being added on, the sin and bodies and earth and stuff and i remembered that inside each of those awful decrepit excuses for a life there was a soul that is precious to God, and we're given the Job of loving them, and what's more we're similarly messed up so all we can do is love'
Thaekor nods.
Leia nods in enthusiastic agreement with Cyto.
Cyto says 'then later when I was trying to forgive my abusers i heard a sermon about how even if you don't have to forgive them whether they ask for forgiveness or whatever, or even if for no other reason, if you don't forgive you turn into a dried up old pathetic corpse because you are imprisoned by the unforgiveness'
Cyto says 'jesus asked for his crucifiers to be forgive even though they were killing him'
Leia nods.
Cyto says 'and i thought well I'm not perfect, and i'm supposed to emulate him'
Leia nods.
Redfieldt nods.
Cyto says 'and then i had a lot more misery in life and had to build up my life and see it torn down again time after time and people i trust betray me and i learned that  people are all pretty miserable but so am i and if you want to have any kind of sanity you just have to forgive and love and move on or else the world will be full of people who are scarred and armless and shivvering and not moving and sad because they can never find anyone who won't hurt them so we just have to accept people for where they ar'
Cyto says 'where they are and who they are and love them for the God in them'
Cyto says 'so now I just want everyone to overcome and am confident that we're all stinky poo heads'
Cyto beams broadly at nothing in particular.
Leia giggles.
Thaekor chuckles politely.
Redfieldt says 'are we done then cyto'
Cyto says 'hey we didn't even get to the best part'
Cyto says 'come on you know you want it'
Cyto says '5:22 Wives, be subject to your own husbands, as to the Lord'
Cyto ducks defensively.
Redfieldt grins mischievously.
Cyto says 'anyway'
Redfieldt says 'yeah anyway'
Cyto says 'the last verse ended in saying subject to one another in the Fear (reverence given to a husband) of christ'
Redfieldt nods.
Leia nods.
Cyto says 'so now its talking about the specific relationship of husbands and wives'
Cyto says '5:22 Wives, be subject to your own husbands, as to the Lord'
Leia nods.
Cyto says 'and mentions it explicitly '
Leia says 'it was also written in a different time when wives were treated very differently ;)'
Redfieldt says 'so true'
Miriam chuckles politely.
Cyto says 'as the church revers Christ as its Bridegroom so women, should rever their husbands'
Miriam nods.
Miriam says 'too often the rest of that passage is left out :P'
Leia smiles happily.
Redfieldt lols at everyone. What in the world is a lol?
Leia pats Redfieldt on his head.
Leia says 'some day ;)'
Miriam grins mischievously.
Redfieldt nods.
Cyto says 'now that said,,, if we are to take that  to its natural conclusion it means wives should ignore their husbands not talk to him for months at a time adnd only mention his name when they are in trouble or mad at which point they should get mad at him, they should make a habbit of cursing him and should also ignore or try to get around his  rules as much as possible'
Cyto says 'if we're going to be consistent'
Redfieldt blinks innocently at Cyto.
Cyto says 'well respecting husbands as the church respects christ'
Thaekor says 'he is saying that is what the church does to Christ'
Cyto nods sagely.
Redfieldt nods.
Leia says 'nod'
Cyto says 'however Christ Loves wives and shows it a lot more than mortal husbands'
Leia nods.
Cyto says 'the relationships are supposed to be a type of each other the relationships all throughout the bible are supposed to be types of relationships pointing to God'
Cyto says 'in fact the Bible itself and many aspects of Nature, The nature of the Godhead all point to the nature of the relationship we're supposed to have with God'
Cyto says 'God fills the bible with pointers to Him'
Leia nods.
Redfieldt nods.
Leia says 'so ... since God is the husband and we are the wife ... it is referring back to that ... right?'
Leia says 'that is what you are saying?'
Cyto says 'Parents To children, I Isaac and Jacob and Abraham, Abraham and isaac on the mountain, the father blessing the Son , The prodigal son, Esther, Ruth, the Nature of Jesus in the Father and lessee, well different parts of Nature too'
Cyto nods at Leia.
Redfieldt nods.
Leia nods.
Cyto says 'the song of Solomon'
Cyto says 'i mean God even structured history where  we could see examples of israel rebelling against God and then going after other husbands'
Redfieldt says 'like baal'
Cyto says 'and then receiving the consequences and then coming back'
Leia nods.
Cyto says 'so you have who was that prophet that had to marry the prostitute'
Redfieldt says 'haggai'
Cyto says 'amos or habbakuk?'
Redfieldt says 'habbakuk'
Cyto says 'not sure'
Redfieldt yawns.
Cyto says 'newho, God sculpted history and the universe to show the relationships, i mean look how the plantes revolve around the sun and the moons around the planets the son providing light and the planets in submission to its gravity'
Cyto says 'okay you're right time to go to bed, we'll pick it up next week'
Miriam chuckles politely.
Redfieldt nods.
Redfieldt says 'good good'
Redfieldt says 'I gotta fix thaekor anyway'
Thaekor thanks Cyto heartily.
Leia smiles happily.
Thaekor says 'that was a good bible lesson'
Thaekor says 'fix ?'
Leia nods.
Redfieldt nods.
Cyto says 'and i'll remember to bring my kevlar as we talk about the more specific dynamics of how wives submit to their husbands and how that works out in practical christian life'
Leia thanks Cyto heartily.
Redfieldt says 'youll find out soon enough'
Leia giggles.
Thaekor says 'ok'
Miriam says 'is he broken?'
Leia giggles.
Cyto says 'ty wanna close us out'
Redfieldt says 'Lord help us'
Cyto says 'Amen'
Redfieldt says 'God you are so great'
Redfieldt says 'Help us to sumbit to you'
Redfieldt says 'in Jesus name amen'
Thaekor nods at Redfieldt.
Cyto softly says amen.
Leia says 'amen'
Cyto says 'keep it with us as we go through the week'
Miriam nods.
Leia hugs Miriam.
Leia hugs Cyto.
Miriam smiles happily.
Miriam says 'thanks, cyto'
Thaekor nods at Miriam.
Leia nods in enthusiastic agreement with Miriam.
Leia waves happily.
Cyto gives everyone a big group hug!
Thaekor smiles happily.