Bible Study log
Cyto says 'okay log on'
Cyto says 'so anyway.......'
FionaRose chuckles politely.
Cyto says 'back in the day society was extremely skewed to parents rights even to the point where it could be scary at times'
Cyto says 'now the information i'm going to share i'm not sure how much it applies to greek or romans or both because i read it 2 weeks ago and get those two confused but it applies to at least one of their societies and the pooint is more that it was as opposed to which society'
Cyto says 'anyway in the time of the first century church children in parts of pagan society were basocally considered extensions of their father for their whole lives, the father had the absolute right over them to kill them or order them to do wahtever they wanted'
Cyto says 'even when a baby was born it would be presented to the father and if the father picked it up it would be considered a person and have rights but if the father didnt' then the servants knew it could be taken away and anything anyone wanted to do could be done to it as the father had not given it status'
FionaRose nods.
Barek says 'ok now hopefully Kari doesnt call me in the front room again lol'
Cyto says 'oftentimes these babies wwere brought to the collisseum'
Cyto says 'in the collisseum anyone who wanted them could take them or they could just be left to die of exposure'
Cyto says 'slave traders and pimps would come at night to raise the kids into a life of slavery and prostitution'
Cyto says 'though I believe the christians became a significant force for adoption'
Cyto says 'if a son was acknowledged even if the child had grown to senior citzenage and had achieved a high level in the millitary or the government the father could still thell him waht to do in theory, in practice there was a certain sense where the society wouldn't let it go too far but the theory was there'
Cyto says 'even unto having him killed'
Cyto says 'in the old testament God made a rule saying that if a parent found his child to be disobedient and disrespectful he could take the child to the village and say to them this child is disrespectful and a slacker and disobedient and the whole village would acknowledge this and stone the child'
Cyto says 'this was an example of Gods relationship with us'
Cyto says 'we need to give him obedience and respect and if we don't we're deserving of death'
Cyto says 'however No father that we have any records of ever made use of this law'
Cyto says 'they always showed grace to their son'
Cyto says 'this is also an example of God's love for us'
FionaRose nods.
Barek nods.
Cyto says 'while we are deserving of death God shows grace to us, he provides a way for us'
Cyto says 'this is in sharp contrast to the pagan society '
Cyto says 'where life seemed to be valued so little'
Japheth bows deeply.
Cyto says 'while suicide was a serious offence'
Barek gallantly tips his hat.
Japheth gallantly tips his hat to Barek.
Cyto says 'in pagan society there were many situations where it semed to be considered honorable'
Japheth raises an eyebrow.
Cyto says 'while God repeatedly told the children of israel to protect the children to train them up to not let harm come to him and that the very idea of them sacrificing their children never even *OCCURED* to him'
Cyto says 'while God repeatedly told the children of israel to protect the children to train them up to not let harm come to him and that the very idea of them sacrificing their children never even *OCCURED* to him'
Cyto smiles happily.
Cyto says 'anyway'
Cyto says 'in pagan society it was there idea that they could curry favor with assorted false gods and bring fortune to themselves by sacrificing their children'
Barek eeps!
Japheth says 'ah talking about Moloch or Baal?'
Cyto says 'well we're on ephesians 6 but contrasting pagan view of children with God's view of children'
Japheth nods sagely.
Cyto says 'bible said that other religions are doctrines of demons'
Japheth agrees absolutely.
Cyto says 'and it should be noted how absolutely dichotomous these two views are'
Cyto says 'the view of life affirming and the view of life as meaningless'
Japheth says 'Evolution is basically teaching the same thing'
Cyto says 'which can be seen even today in secular society that believes that babies are just masses of cells that wants to permit euthanasia on old people to reduce the burden to society that says that even a month after a child is born it should be up to the parent to decide if it is a real person and they should have the option of killing it that Doctors should kill children with disabilities de-riguer'
Cyto says 'not evolution specifically but rather the much more basic Godless view of the universe'
Japheth says 'like the spartens'
Japheth says 'well in fact they would kill any child that was not perfect'
Cyto says 'if there is no God than their is no purpose meaning or moral accountability, truth is defined by the person so basically the "greatest happiness to the greatest number of people" is the rule'
Barek sighs.
Barek says 'i`m afraid i g2g'
Barek pouts.
Cyto smiles at Barek and greets him with, "Shalom, the Lord's peace be with you."
FionaRose says 'take care :)'
Barek says 'u 2'
Barek waves happily.
Cyto says 'God's standard is like a kewl drink of water'
Cyto says 'it shows a truth that is compassionate loving'
Japheth says 'if the tri-lateral commission goes through congress we will soon be a one world government and we will soon see those very things in action again '
Cyto says 'and is real and Good'
Japheth nods in enthusiastic agreement with Cyto.
Cyto says 'well unfortunately i don't think it will take a trilateral commision to effect those changes some of them are happening in various parts of the country and the only question is will there be a revival of Gods word will people realize his turth or will we just succumb to that evil night'
Cyto says 'but oppinions aside'
Cyto says 'lets see what the word says'
~Verse to Room from Cyto~
Ephesians 1:6
To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
Cyto says 'erm sorry'
Japheth says 'right I agree it started with nafta'
~Verse to Room from Cyto~
Joshua 1:7
Only be thou strong and very courageous, that thou mayest observe to do according to all the law, which Moses my servant commanded thee: turn not from it to the right hand or to the left, that thou mayest prosper whithersoever thou goest.
Cyto says 'GRRRRRRRRRRR'
Cyto bonks himself and grimaces in pain.
Japheth says 'our country is already lost unless the world wakes up'
Cyto says 'verse to room eph 6 1 7'
Cyto says 'this is soo not working'
Japheth says 'our I should say america'
~Verse to Room from Cyto~
Ephesians 6:1-7
1 Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right.
2 Honour thy father and mother; (which is the first commandment with promise;)
3 That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth.
4 And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.
5 Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ;
6 Not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart;
7 With good will doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men:
~Verse to Room from Japheth~
Ephesians 6:1-7
1 Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right.
2 Honour thy father and mother; (which is the first commandment with promise;)
3 That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth.
4 And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.
5 Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ;
6 Not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart;
7 With good will doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men:
Japheth says 'ah'
Japheth says 'had to leave out the -'
Cyto says 'unlike pagan culture , God gives a two sided rule'
Cyto says 'he commands fathers not to anger their children just as children are to obey their parents'
Japheth nods.
Cyto says 'we are to honour our father and mother'
Cyto says 'and at least as little children obey them'
~Verse to Room from Japheth~
Malachi 4:5-6
5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:
6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.
Cyto says 'now its interesting to note that it says that when a man marries a woman he's to leave his father and mother and cleave to his wife'
Japheth nods.
Cyto says 'now a womans first obedience is to her husband but if the husband stayed with his parents hed still feel obligated to obey them perhaps but if they are with the wives parents or alone the wife will be subject to the husband and the husband will not have as strong a demand for obedience to the wives prarnts or his own since they are not immediately there'
Cyto says 'so there does seem to be a time and this is just sorta intuiting and speculation where children are supposed to start taking responsibility for their own stuff'
Japheth nods.
FionaRose agrees absolutely.
Japheth beams a smile at FionaRose.
Japheth waves to FionaRose.
Cyto says 'i like the way the people on new life say sometimes the most honoring thing you can do for your parents is to disobey their word but live the life most pelasing to God and in that honor that they raised someone who could be better than they ever could have raised them to be instead of living in darkness'
Japheth nods.
Cyto says 'that said there is a specific command to honor and obey them and we need to take that seriously a task which i'm particularly bad at so bad i feel uniquely unqualified to teach this chapter so if you two have any insights feel free to chime in'
Cyto says 'verse 4 is really interesting'
Cyto says 'it says to discipline your kids and instruct them but not to anger them'
Cyto says 'now a LOT LOT LOT of people seem to have a lot of trouble disambiguating these things (that is separating them) how do you discipline a child without angering them i mean do you just expect them to thankyou for a spanking or a lecture'
Japheth nods.
Cyto says 'i know one mother who does it completely the wrong way when her kids misbehave and when they don't she yells to the point of verbal abuse for hours'
Cyto says 'but she will never enforce any consequences to the point of putting them in danger'
Japheth nods.
Cyto says 'but a good parent will know how to enforce consequence but not out of anger or malice but out of love'
Cyto says 'a good rule is never hit your kids when your angry'
FionaRose nods.
Japheth says 'right I don't hit my kids period I only as a last resort will spank them and only after I give them plenty of warning and when I am done I kiss them and tell them its because I love them that I correct them'
Cyto says 'I for one know i never respected my mother when she screamed at me and it had very little effect and her tirades with wooden spoons just left me with a determination to get big enough to disarm her'
Cyto nods sagely at Japheth.
Japheth says 'and my kids obey me happily'
Cyto says 'what affected me was when she sat me down and had a quiet talk with me seriously about her heart and concerns'
Cyto says 'then she struck me as a real person'
Cyto says 'but it seems a lot of people live unexamined lives and the subtleties never occur to them and it makes me profoundly sad for the damage it does'
Cyto says 'so all we can do is try to love them show them a better way if opportunity presents itself and run damage control'
Cyto says 'thoughts?'
Japheth nods.
Cyto says 'comments?'
Japheth says 'well'
Japheth says 'I would add I not only love them and do damage control'
Cyto nods.
Japheth says 'but I pray and put them in gods hands'
Cyto nods.
Japheth says 'and wait on gods grace'
Japheth says 'because the Lord IS everything'
Cyto says 'see the last part is hard'
Japheth says 'waiting on Gods grace or the damage control part?'
Japheth says 'for me its waiting on Gods grace'
Cyto says 'while God is everything he works through people so it can be hard to know when he's going to do something miraculous in the persons heart or wants to use you to call ACS'
Japheth nods.
Cyto says 'my pastor is in a situation like that now'
Japheth says 'ACS '
Cyto says 'he knows the tennants upstarirs are leaving the kids alone for long periods of time and the kids are really not controlled or respectful'
Japheth says '?'
Cyto says 'Administration for Childrens Services'
Japheth says 'oh aps'
Japheth says 'here in sacramento its called cps'
Japheth says 'childrens protective services'
Cyto says 'and he's really worried and talked and offered assistance to the dad bue he's like ;never you worry wes gots our own personal business under control, I'm good have a nice day seeya'
Cyto says 'so now he has to ponder if he has to make a call since it seems like there being alone for days if not weeks'
Cyto says 'and sometimes there's nothing much you can do'
Japheth says 'true'
Cyto says 'okay 5:5'
Japheth says 'like take my wife she drinks and smokes and I hate both but I have to be loving and kind to her and I dont say anything about it '
Japheth says 'I just try to love her and pray for her'
Cyto says 'does she know your feelings'
Japheth says 'oh yeah'
Cyto says 'have any desire at all to change?'
Japheth says 'I have begged her not to smoke around our girls'
Japheth says 'none'
Cyto nods.
Cyto says 'is she saved'
Japheth says 'and I am comming up on 7 years of marriage '
Japheth says 'no'
Japheth says 'she claims to be a catholic'
Japheth says 'but shes not'
Cyto says 'does she respect you and your beliefs'
Japheth says 'no'
Cyto comforts Japheth.
Japheth says 'very disrespectful'
Japheth says 'in fact'
Japheth says 'she lied to me last night'
Cyto nods.
Japheth says 'got on myspace and wrote terrible things for the whole wolrd to see'
Japheth says 'that wernt true]'
Cyto nods.
Japheth says 'then she told me she was hacked'
Japheth says 'and that she didnt do it'
Japheth says 'but they were the exact type of things she and she only would say'
Cyto nods.
Japheth says 'I wont stay tied to evil any longer I am praying for her'
Japheth says 'but if there is no change of heart during this yeah I will divorce'
Japheth says 'year*'
FionaRose comforts Japheth.
Cyto says 'do you have grounds? has she cheated on you?'
Japheth says 'yes'
Cyto sighs.
Japheth says 'she slept with her ex'
Japheth says 'and'
Japheth says 'we have irreconcilable differences'
Japheth says 'hence I am a believer and shes not and she lives a very immoral life'
Cyto says 'nothing is impossible with God'
Cyto says 'though i don't think he'l;l force his will on people'
Japheth says 'right'
Cyto says 'waht about a marriage retreat like the new life one or the Family life today marriage retreat'
Japheth says 'after almost 7 years of praying for her and she seems even more evil now I dont know what to think, I just lay it all in Gods hands'
Japheth says 'she wont go'
Cyto says 'counseling'
Cyto says '?'
Japheth says 'I asked well... I told her I prayed and asked for God to tell me what to do since she wont go to counseling with me '
Japheth says 'God told me to ask her what she wants from me as a husband'
FionaRose says 'How did that go?'
Japheth says 'this is the beginning of counseling '
Japheth says 'well I asked her to make a list'
Cyto nods.
Japheth says 'no matter how ridiculous she thought it would be like if she thinks part of me being a good husband would be to buy her a car a house ect...'
Cyto nods.
Japheth says 'I asked her every day for 2 monthsd'
Cyto says 'eeek'
Japheth says 'I told her if she doesnt tell me what I can do them'
Japheth says 'then'
Japheth says 'my hands are tied'
Japheth says 'she has shown me she has 0 desire to work it out with me in fact'
Japheth says 'now she has placed and ad in myspace saying shes single looking for good looking guys'
Japheth shrugs helplessly.
Cyto says 'one sollution might be this, go to counseling yourself'
Cyto says 'okay well last time our studylog got exploded cuz of the server crash'
Tyrael softly says amen.
Miriam gasps in astonishment.
Cyto says 'which may have been a good thing since i didn't turn it off before Japh started getting into the personal stuff'
Cyto says 'and it was in a lot of ways a repeat'
Cyto says 'but anyway does anyone have any questions about Eph 6 so far'
Cyto says 'thoughts, comments etc'
Cyto says 'okay guess not'
Cyto says '6:3 SO THAT IT MAY BE WELL WITH YOU, AND THAT YOU MAY LIVE LONG ON THE EARTH. 6:4 Fathers, do not provoke your children to anger, but bring them up in the discipline and instruction of the Lord. 6:5 Slaves, be obedient to those who are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in the sincerity of your heart, as to Christ; 6:6 not by way of eyeservice, as men-pleasers, but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart. '
Cyto says 'okay read that'
Cyto says 'tell me when your done reading it twice'
Tyrael says 'done'
Miriam says 'done'
Cyto says 'okay now look at the first verse in that passage and the last one mentioned and tell me if you notice anything'
Tyrael says 'so eph 1 compared to verse 3'
Cyto says 'er no '
Cyto says 'verse 3 compared with 6'
Cyto says 'well its a little obtuse what i'm thinking so maybe i should explain'
Tyrael says 'you should'
Tyrael says 'I see plain instruction'
Cyto says 'Paul is establishing an entire Zeitgeist for the Christian to follow'
Cyto says 'yes plain instruction'
Cyto says 'but...'
Cyto says 'in the plain instruction beyond the specific instruction'
Tyrael says 'huh'
Cyto says 'the specific instruction should lead us to an understanding of an entire way of looking at the world and our lives that can help us live in the way the specific instructions list'
Tyrael says 'I don't see that'
Jazmine bows deeply.
Cyto nods.
Miriam waves to Jazmine.
Tyrael says 'I see a basic instruction that can be used like you say'
Cyto says '6:3 SO THAT IT MAY BE WELL WITH YOU, AND THAT YOU MAY LIVE LONG ON THE EARTH. 6:4 Fathers, do not provoke your children to anger, but bring them up in the discipline and instruction of the Lord. 6:5 Slaves, be obedient to those who are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in the sincerity of your heart, as to Christ; 6:6 not by way of eyeservice, as men-pleasers, but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart. '
Cyto says 'okay lemme show you what i'm seeing'
Cyto says 'verse 3'
Tyrael says 'we are to do these things that we may be well and live long on the earth, but we should do them not just offering lip service, we should do them from the heart'
Cyto says 'it says children should obey their parents so that it will go well with them'
Cyto says 'that says one thing right off the bat'
Cyto says 'its not wrong to want to do things that are in your own self-interest'
Cyto says 'providing that that self-interest is self-interest that is true from God's perspective'
Cyto says 'not the distorted kind that your flesh would tell you was truly your self interest'
Cyto says 'but its not wrong to want good things to happen to you or a bad reason for doing things'
Cyto says 'certainly there are other and better reasons but that one isn't bad or wrong'
Cyto says 'then it says don't obey your masters as men pleasers'
Tyrael says 'that says to me'
Tyrael says 'don't fake it'
Tyrael says 'do it from your heart'
Cyto says 'don't obey as a cowering toady'
Cyto says 'don't obey simply from fear or whatever'
Cyto says 'you have a purpose in life and a higher calling'
Cyto says 'its your purpose to serve God'
Cyto says 'and its God's will that we obey authorities and do our best'
Cyto says 'so when we go to work we need to take on an entirely different feeling in our minds'
Cyto says 'I think C.S. Lewis wrote and perhaps his inspiration George MacDonald that he could tell the difference between Heaven and a dream and other dimensions and what not in that each place had their own disntinct quality to them their own distinct experience of being where your experience of being in a dream felt qualitativley different than being awake and so heaven from being physically alive'
Cyto says 'so too we should have a qualitatively different perspective about work '
Cyto says 'not that feeling where we drag ourselves through minute by minute'
Cyto says 'hi someone'
Cyto says 'go vis please'
Cyto says 'hi'
Seth smiles happily.
Cyto says 'anyway'
Tyrael says 'stepping out to get a after workout snack and take some meds'
Cyto says 'when we go to work we should have the feeling of doing it with purpose'
Cyto says 'of doing it as a form of ministry as something we are Supposed to be doing for God'
Cyto says 'so its not just like our ministry and our work and stuff is bifurcated and we grudgingly admit its something we kinda should be doing but rather that it is an extension of our relationship with God and should be approached from the same way'
Cyto says 'and in the same vein'
Cyto says 'since we are not obeying our bosses just to be men pleaseers but rather are obeying as unto the Lord'
Cyto says 'people shouldn't perceive us as just passing days or a purposeless drone either'
Cyto says 'they should realize that their is more to us than the job that our highest authority is God and that in fact it is not hte boss that owns us but rather God. that we run our lives according to him when people see we have that boundary that we are not totally controlled by the all powerful fear of firing, or even the less tangible fear of oh he wouldn't like that very much its a very freeing experience and i think can bring respect from the employer and a great deal of empowerment into ones life as wel'
Cyto says 'well as resulting in a better testimony as hopefully our actions will be more forthright, and real, and loving and wise'
Cyto says 'and more in our interests and theirs ultimately'
Cyto says 'even if sometimes and this is an important word, even if sometimes it means saying "NO"'
Cyto says 'okay any comments or thoughts, or disagreements?'
Cyto says '?'
Cyto says 'lo?'
Tyrael says 'not really'
Tyrael says 'well'
Tyrael says 'I kinda disagree'
Cyto cheers and sings... he is just BURSTING with joy!
Cyto says 'thats something :)!'
Tyrael says 'I am passive when it comes to being outright toward my Boss'
Cyto says 'well go for it'
Tyrael says 'He knows I am a christian'
Tyrael says 'But I don't get on his case about him not being one'
Tyrael says 'I am ministring to him, '
Tyrael says 'but not shoving it down his throat'
Tyrael says 'and he respects that and he respects me'
Cyto beams a smile at Miriam.
Tyrael says 'ok I am done'